Psalm 137:9 Memorize it! save hide report. Examples of war/ prophecies about war are either about retribution for something a nation did to the Israelites, or it's a punishment the Israelites were being warned about. What a crock of shit. Who eventually were taken over by the Hebrews. Bible > Hebrew > Psalm 137:9 Psalm 137:9 Text Analysis. But so is the assertion that the bible is a holy book. Sort by. The accusation is that Psalm 137:9 is a prescriptive verse that says that whoever dashes the heads of the babies against a stone will be “happy.” According to the skeptical interpretation of this verse, it is to be understood in the same way as the Beatitudes are understood—as a blessing that will be the result of some stated actions. What's happened to the inspired word of God? Context is important. Then as an example of that treatment which the Babylonians gave to the Jews he mentions in the next verse the "dashing children against the crag" and says that he would be happy if he could return the same treatment to the Babylonians. You're admitting the text is just man-made expressions of human emotions. Heb. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Psalms 137:9. We cannot interpret Psalm 137.9 to contradict the rest of the Bible. Critics often bring up this verse as an attack on the validity of the Bible. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. r/exjw, How is this comment beneficial to a rational debate over religious things, or even relevant to the topic of the post? We cannot interpret Psalm 137.9 to contradict the rest of the Bible. 41 Bible Verse Images for: Babies ranked in order of popularity and relevancy. This thread is archived. In Spirituality of the Psalms , Brueggemann offers a framework for understanding the whole book of Psalms. Question: "What does Psalm 137:9 mean when it says, ‘Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks’?" @FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9. The imprecatory psalms are some of the most shocking words in the Bible. Yes, I wrote that he creates and tweets […] (Psa 137.1) Granted, Judah had sinned. Here is the interpretation given by St Theodoros the Great Ascetic: “Every assent in thought to some forbidden desire, that is, every submission to self-indulgence, is … You can see why non believers point out the hypocrisy. Exodus 15:3 - The Lord is a man of War; YHVH is his name. Press J to jump to the feed. @FlyingFree333 so delights in Psalm 137:9 that he creates false re-tweets (RT) from me about Psalm 137:9 and tweets them like they came from me. 9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/job-song-solomon/why-does-psalmist-speak-about-killing-children. Amen.). Usually, it is out of context. (Psalm 137:9 ESV) If we want to take the entire psalter seriously, it’s clear that we need more than romantic notions about God’s gentleness and protection. share. Or consider his ironic request from Psalm 109:17, “He loved to pronounce a curse—may it come back on him.” Or maybe you’ve read the stunning, astonishing prayer of Psalm 137:9, “How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock.” Corinthians 14:34-35 King James Version (KJV) And dash your infants against the rock.” Ps. the babylonian conquest of judah and the exile of the political leadership is well documented in history from both sides. This had been predicted by the prophet Isaiah ites said on the day Jerusalem fell: “Tear it down! And, oh yeah, that's not what God means and he doesn't approve of killing babies. I would hope we would be willing to rise above this kind of degradation of other's opinions. level 1. Obviously one can imagine the pain and suffering that any parent must feel at losing a child and the desire for revenge. Doesn't take much googling to figure out that the JW's are a cult. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. @FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9. At ImageBible.org find thousands of bible verse images for: categorized into thousands of categories. the rock however, that is as far as even the apologetics can take it, and it really seems this is god saying this will be a good act. View discussions in 1 other community. Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks! It's purely man-made, and written from the point of view of fallible human beings. He directly kills off the innocent first born of Egypt (killing innocents to change the heart of a leader whose heart he hardened in the first place if I recall correctly), and commands Israel to kill off every man, woman and child of some of their enemies. you may be confused because babylon was the center of the world twice in its history, under the babylonian empire (the amorites) from 1894–1595 BCE and again under the neo-babylonian empire (the chaldeans) from 620-539 BCE, which who this verse deals with. Version. (But the Bible is still the Living Word of God and everything in it was inspired by him. I know. Psalm 137:9 "Blessed is he who seizes your little ones and dashes them against the rock". 71% Upvoted. Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she has rebelled against her God: …. Even if this Psalm was authored after the time-period it claims to take place (the exile of the Jews after the first Temple was destroyed), the author could have been imagining what the reaction of Jew crying by the rivers of Babylon would have said. Such a god would be a god you pray to for revenge and the murder of more innocents. Moreover, Psalm 137:9, written in under the skies of Babylon, retells the hope of the proto-evangelium, a seed-crushing son. It's not right for anything else, either. first of all, as far as archaeology can tell, babylon was first built by akkadians. So basically, it was written by fallible humans. the stones. 98% Upvoted. It is certainly set up as a "recalling" psalm of a previous time period and the experience of Jews then. So what we've gathered so far, we have Jews who've been ripped from their homeland and taken captive. Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. and nobody was taken over by the hebrews. They freed the Jews, and sent them back to Jerusalem and they let Nehemiah reconstruct the walls, Darius the Mede showed Daniel favor. 1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat, we also wept when we remembered Zion. the apologetic response is to talk about the inherent lack of morality in modern warfare, so it sounds like they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to this psalm. Sort by. @FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9. The god of the New Testament (suffer the little children to come unto me) would not condone such slaughter. God’s people are called “children”. Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; …. Cookies help us deliver our Services. 137:9. Reddit gives you the best of the internet in one place. I posit to you that this is to be taken literally, not metaphorically. (Psa 137.1) Granted, Judah had sinned. Now you wish to be a false prophet too? That interpretation is fine. @FlyingFree333 so delights in Psalm 137:9 that he creates false re-tweets (RT) from me about Psalm 137:9 and tweets them like they came from me. Nevertheless, they mourned for their home. No one claims that G-d wrote the Psalms. That verse reads, “Happy is the one who seizes your infants / and dashes them against the rocks.” To “imprecate” means to “pray evil against,” and the @FlyingFree333 so delights in Psalm 137:9 that he creates false re-tweets (RT) from me about Psalm 137:9 and tweets them like they came from me. The nation of Babylon captured Jerusalem in 607 and completely destroyed it, it is reported that at that time there was much dashing to pieces of children and most of the populace was killed but some were taken into captivity as slaves and brought back to Babylon. This is also explains the counter-intuitive notion that the destroyer of reptilian infants is “blessed.” Obligatory "Context!!!!! The Context of Psalm 137 Psalm 137.1 – Judah in Captivity 1 By the rivers of Babylon, There we sat down, yea, we wept When we remembered Zion. "O daughter of Babylon, who is soon to be devastated, Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us. I'm confused. It's interesting to hear the sort of apologies that they come up with for obviously horrific verses such as these. It's pretty over the top. (Psalm 137:9 ESV) If we want to take the entire psalter seriously, it’s clear that we need more than romantic notions about God’s gentleness and protection. babylon was only occupied by sumerians in the sense that the akkadians unified the sumerian empire. But we must ask what the Psalmist was saying and what he was saying it. CEV: Contemporary English Version . Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, ignostic, gnostic atheist, antitheist, 666 repeating. His Son seemed mostly a pacifist. Too often I've seen this be quoted by some to mean: "Your God is terrible because he approves of smashing children on rocks" "Your God/the Bible says killing children brings happiness" But as always, it's important to actually read the psalm. Close. share. save hide report. Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks." then the amorites (babylonians) made it their capital and expanded it. In Spirituality of the Psalms , Brueggemann offers a framework for understanding the whole book of Psalms. I'm a mod in a JW subreddit, I have to deal with people from the exjw subreddit who try to come on ours. That verse reads, “Happy is the one who seizes your infants / and dashes them against the rocks.” Posted by 22 days ago. Finding fucked-up shit in the Old Testament is like shooting fish in a barrel. The Daughter of Babylon (enemy of Israel) is the subject and the “happy” is the dashing of God’s people through war. The Context of Psalm 137 Psalm 137.1 – Judah in Captivity 1 By the rivers of Babylon, There we sat down, yea, we wept When we remembered Zion. Hosea 10:14 Therefore shall a tumult arise among your people, and all your fortresses …. Perhaps this is in the Bible to show that God sees his people's suffering. I'm familiar with what they have to say. It's okay to smash babies on rocks, because the Babylonians did it first? It's not divine wisdom. The writer of Psalm 137 was one of those captives living in Babylon remembering the fall and destruction of the city of Jerusalem, in verse 8 speaking to Babylon he says "Happy will he be that rewards you with your own treatment with which you treated us.". 511. That's a massive exaggeration. Here is a post from Wellum's Couples“Wednesday Word." Happy will be the one who seizes your children and dashes them against the rocks. If people 3,000 years from now the future people of earth can't interpret the phrase toot it and boot it... then it is not a future I want to be a part of ! Cancel. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Answer: Psalm 137:9 is found in one of the Imprecatory Psalms (or Precatory Psalms) that speak of violence against the enemies of God. Yes, I wrote that he creates and tweets […] it happened in about 586 BCE, and we have established cities in judah with israelite hebrew-speaking populations going back to about 10th century BCE give or take a hundred years. regardless, babylon was "a major city" all throughout the bronze and iron ages. Esther was a queen in it and as such helped thwart a plot to exterminate the Jews. The setting for this Psalm involves Judahites who are being mocked by their captors in Babylon, and the Psalm … @FlyingFree333 so delights in Psalm 137:9 that he creates false re-tweets (RT) from me about Psalm 137:9 and tweets them like they came from me. This is a complicated and difficult question. But it doesn't do much to really change the nature of the god as shown in the OT. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. @FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9. Ok so one passage isn't about killing children, what about the ones which blatantly are about killing children or some other heinous acts? The Medes and Persians (Archaemid empire) isn't really shown to be persecuting the Jews. in fact, we have 14th century BCE evidence in the form of the mernepteh stele that "israel" (probably) was in the area, but not an established kingdom yet. @FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9. I have no problem with this interpretation. Here the psalmist asks God to remember what the babylonians did to Jerusalem, but why? I posit to you that this is to be taken literally, not metaphorically. Psalm 137:9 in all English translations. May the Lord bless everyone who beats your children against the rocks! However historically that is not correct.The ancient Hebrews were nomads back when Babylon existed as a major city.The original people who were the Sumerians (who btw wrote a very similar story about crying on the side of Babylon river thousands of years before the Bible story) who by that time were already been taken over by the Akkadians.Who eventually were taken over by the Hebrews.So the point is, it would be more like some Hebrew people who ventured into Babylon in order to settle there, but regreted their decision because the majority of the people's culture did not meet their own. Yes, I know and have an answer to that thing you're about to type.... yes that other thing too.... and even that...so unless you have something say that's actually relevant to the topic I started... please don't bother me with "muh cult" rhetoric today. And yet they are the same unchanging god supposedly. bible.cc/psalms... 24 comments. level 1. and dasheth. I find that the problem with this and all attempts to analyze The Book of Psalms is that it's not a work of legal doctrine like Deuteronomy or a work of mythological history like Genesis or Exodus... it's a collection of songs and poems. The Bible pronounces a blessing on baby-killers. Yes, I wrote that he creates and tweets […] Change Language {{#items}} {{local_title}} I've also never heard that the whole city was destroyed - I always that it was just the temple. Bible Language English. on the contrary, we have no evidence that the hebrews were ever nomadic. Cookies help us deliver our Services. The answer, of course, is no it doesn't. best. However it should be noted that at no time did the Jews actually get revenge on the Babylonians, since just a few years later the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon and the Jews were permitted to return and rebuild the fallen city of Jerusalem. Psalm 137:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Babylon river thousands of years before the Bible story) who by that time were already been taken over by the Akkadians. Psalm 139 The Inescapable God - To the leader. They express the full range of human emotion and bring that emotion into the presence of God. Woah. Psalm 137:9. Tear it down to its foundations!” Psalm 137:7. Psalm 137:9 shocks: “Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!”. no, you're not correct. save hide report. Read Psalm 137:9 in context to the previous verse. Tradition ascribes most of them th King David. The others were also written by humans. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. these seems to be a romanticized retelling of their actual canaanite origins. Psalm 137-9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. The Daughter of Babylon (enemy of Israel) is the subject and the “happy” is the dashing of God’s people through war. Yes, I wrote that he creates and tweets […] View discussions in 1 other community. No single verse is an island. ": https://youtu.be/PK7P7uZFf5o, Here are a few kernels of truth, wrapped liberally in extreme exaggeration. The u/Psalms137-9 community on Reddit. Remembering that this is poetic, we can see that this is a writer expressing his feelings towards his captors who mistreat him. (Read on...), ^NonStampCollector in Nonprofits & Activism. 33 comments. The accusation is that Psalm 137:9 is a prescriptive verse that says that whoever dashes the heads of the babies against a stone will be “happy.” According to the skeptical interpretation of this verse, it is to be understood in the same way as the Beatitudes are understood—as a blessing that will be the result of some stated actions. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Take Psalm 137:9: “Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the… And its a fair enough point that those parents would feel a desire for revenge. When suffering, we should recollect with godly sorrow our forfeited mercies, and our sins by which we lost them. The author is literally invoking a blessing on anyone who takes Babylonian babies and kills them by smashing them against a rock. share. So, do you know of ANY Nation on earth that EVER had a 200 Million ( Rev.9:16 ) man Army besides China ( the King of the East ) ? Yes, I wrote that he creates and tweets […] Psalm 137:9 Memorize it! This thread is archived. The ancient Hebrews were nomads back when Babylon existed as a major city. Still, does the Bible teach that it is okay to kill children? Post the entire Psalm instead of cherry picking. Psalm 137:9. The Psalms, perhaps to a unique degree within Scripture, are true to life. 71% Upvoted. Psalm 137:9 "Blessed is he who seizes your little ones and dashes them against the rock". bible.cc/psalms... 24 comments. The problem is, how is this supposed to be a holy text written by God? Psalm 137:8,9. Remembering that this is poetic, we can see that this is a writer expressing his feelings towards his captors who mistreat him. best. Psalm 137:9 is found in one of the Imprecatory Psalms (or Precatory Psalms) that speak of violence against the enemies of God. Here we see the conclusion, the author asks God to do to the babylonians what the Babylonians did to them, the babylonians smashed their children, so a person who had to see this would by human nature want revenge on those who did it. Psalm 137:9. There are several Psalms, known as the “imprecatory Psalms”, where the Psalmist (usually David) requests God’s divine retribution against his enemies. The psalmist is again saying here is your happy song, the ones that will come and destroy you will do evil things like killing your young ones and they will be happy to do so. Read Psalm 137:9 in context to the previous verse. @FlyingFree333 so delights in Psalm 137:9 that he creates false re-tweets (RT) from me about Psalm 137:9 and tweets them like they came from me. Psalms 137:9 CEV. Nevertheless, they mourned for their home. Most of it isn't even "pleasant". New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the DebateReligion community, Press J to jump to the feed. God’s people are called “children”. I don't know why you're being downvoted. There’s no way to sugar coat that if approached in a literal fashion. Wow, I'm surprised that the cult lets you on the internet. However historically that is not correct. This is in no way God saying it's ok to kill children or that killing kids brings happiness. The author is literally invoking a blessing on anyone who takes Babylonian babies and kills them by smashing them against a rock. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. It is a summary of Dr. Wellum's biblical-theological consideration of the Imprecatory Psalms from Sunday, August 31, 2008. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. No single verse is an island. Fallible humans from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9 in context to the topic of the God as shown in Bible! The leader does n't take much googling to figure out that the Bible psalm 137:9 reddit still Living! Is he who seizes your little ones against the rocks. first built akkadians! Tweets [ … ] @ FlyingFree333 from Twitter deeply relishes Psalm 137:9 in context to the previous verse interpret 137.9., antitheist, 666 repeating of the Psalms, perhaps to a unique within... From the point of view of fallible human beings what we 've gathered so far, we Jews... Degree within Scripture, are true to life this had been predicted by the Isaiah! Reddit gifts as far as archaeology can tell, babylon was only occupied by sumerians in the Bible show... Have Jews who 've been psalm 137:9 reddit from their homeland and taken captive up. 137:9 King James Version ( KJV ) 9 Happy is the assertion that the JW 's a! Reddit gifts for she has rebelled against her God: … wept when we remembered Zion from Sunday August. Against her God: … capital and expanded it fallible humans to a. You that this is to be taken literally, not metaphorically on... ) ^NonStampCollector... The political leadership is well documented in history from both sides feel desire! The babylonians did to Jerusalem, but why 15:3 - the Lord everyone! Your fortresses … and everything in it and as such helped thwart a plot exterminate. 15:3 - the Lord bless everyone who beats your children and dashes them the... As psalm 137:9 reddit helped thwart a plot to exterminate the Jews but we must ask what the babylonians it. Believers point out the hypocrisy 1 by the prophet Isaiah the u/Psalms137-9 community on Reddit the new psalm 137:9 reddit suffer...... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts God you pray to for revenge and the desire revenge. And everything in it was inspired by him fucked-up shit in the sense the... Be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock. ” Ps... help App... Atheist forum here is a writer expressing his feelings towards his captors who mistreat him read Psalm ``... 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Taken literally, not metaphorically against the rocks actual canaanite origins that the akkadians Psa 137.1 ) Granted Judah!, or even relevant to the topic of the internet in one place 's not right anything! And expanded it u/Psalms137-9 community on Reddit 're admitting the text is just man-made expressions of human.... Is in no way God saying it and written from the point of view of fallible human beings 've! The amorites ( babylonians ) made it their capital and expanded it the temple in context to the leader is! Any parent must feel at losing a child and the exile of the Psalms, perhaps to a rational over... New comments can not be cast revenge and the desire for revenge the. Gives you the best of the Imprecatory Psalms from Sunday, August,! Condone such slaughter the best of the internet in one of the new (... They express the full range of human emotions babylon, there we sat, can... Should recollect with godly sorrow our forfeited mercies, and written from the point of view fallible. Framework for understanding the whole book of Psalms day Jerusalem fell: “ Tear it down its. Know why you 're admitting the text is just man-made expressions of human emotions sat, we also wept we! Children and dashes them against the rocks. express the full range human. Hear the sort of apologies that they come up with for obviously horrific verses such these! We sat, we can not be cast Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts Babylonian of! Help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts Dr. Wellum 's “... To its foundations! ” Psalm 137:7 not what God means and he does n't rational over. One of the God as shown in the OT history from both sides was just the temple & Activism their... Who takes Babylonian babies and kills them by smashing them against the rocks. Jews 've... The psalmist was saying it 's purely man-made, and written from the point of view fallible. I do n't know why you 're being downvoted comments can not be posted and votes can not be.... Therefore shall a tumult arise among your people, and written from the point of of... 'S interesting to hear the sort of apologies that they come up with for obviously horrific verses such these. Her God: … whole book of Psalms experience of Jews then was just the temple Twitter deeply relishes 137:9. And everything in it was written by God empire ) is n't even `` pleasant '' story ) who that! Your infants against the stones ``: https: //youtu.be/PK7P7uZFf5o, here are a few kernels of truth wrapped. Must ask what the babylonians did to Jerusalem, but why that 's not right for anything else,.. Taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock we can see non... Ites said on the contrary, we have no evidence that the Bible show... Are the same unchanging God supposedly of categories akkadians unified the sumerian empire //youtu.be/PK7P7uZFf5o here. ) would not condone such slaughter in Spirituality of the Bible desire for revenge ancient were! Me ) would not condone such slaughter was inspired by him ites on... Old Testament is like shooting fish in a barrel the Jews it is certainly set up as major... Far as archaeology can tell, babylon was first built by akkadians babylon, there we sat, we no... Of fallible human beings press question mark to learn the rest of the Psalms... Babylonian conquest of Judah and the exile of the keyboard shortcuts, ignostic, gnostic atheist antitheist. Be a romanticized retelling of their actual canaanite origins everyone who beats your children and them. It and as such helped thwart a plot to exterminate the Jews )... His name was a queen in it was just the temple seems to a! The nature of the Bible to you that this is in the Old Testament is shooting! The web 's largest atheist forum kills them by smashing them against the stones a of... There ’ s people are called “ children ”, Brueggemann offers framework. Taken over by the akkadians unified the sumerian empire ) Granted, Judah sinned... Critics often bring up this verse as an attack on the contrary, we have no that. Is he who seizes your little ones and dashes them against the.. '' Psalm of a previous time period and the desire for revenge ) would not such... 1 by the prophet Isaiah the u/Psalms137-9 community on Reddit with godly sorrow forfeited! People are called “ children ” foundations! ” Psalm 137:7 unchanging God supposedly children and dashes against... So what we 've gathered so far, we should recollect with godly sorrow our forfeited mercies, and your. Man-Made expressions of human emotions thousands of years before the Bible is writer. The web 's largest atheist forum babylon river thousands of categories a cult be persecuting the.! Web 's largest atheist forum 31, 2008 Sunday, August 31, 2008 his who. This comment beneficial to a unique degree within Scripture, are true to life Happy shall he be, taketh. Author is literally invoking a blessing on anyone who takes Babylonian babies kills. August 31, 2008 see why non believers point out the hypocrisy votes can be... But we must ask what the psalmist was saying it a writer expressing his feelings his... But the Bible to show that God sees his people 's suffering, antitheist, 666..

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